Curse

nekopowa · Apr 22, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

People hate them because they don't understand them. Same goes for any new class, especially dervs and paragons. PvE is full of noobs, ignorant people, and those who think their W/Mo riposte warrior is immortal (lol). Sins are the best runners (Echo-Shadow Form-Neutrality-Dark Escape-Dash), the best non-aoe damage dealer (no other class can kill a warrior in 6 seconds), melee and caster shutdown in one (Temple Strike anyone?), practically invunerable to pure melee attackers (Critical Defenses, Way of Perfection and Critical Eye), boss farmers (Sliver Armor), first to solo Tombs, etc.

Also, not to mention that too many 13 years old kids play assassins just because they think they're cool and the builds they end up making are disgraceful.

LightningHell · Apr 22, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

...or indeed any split player stand out.

What I've been trying to say.

Except that other classes require more skill.

No class requires "no" skill. If you don't have enough skill with using the computer to open Guild Wars, then that's...that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekopowa

People hate them because they don't understand them. Same goes for any new class, especially dervs and paragons. PvE is full of noobs, ignorant people, and those who think their W/Mo riposte warrior is immortal (lol). Sins are the best runners (Echo-Shadow Form-Neutrality-Dark Escape-Dash), the best non-aoe damage dealer (no other class can kill a warrior in 6 seconds), melee and caster shutdown in one (Temple Strike anyone?), practically invunerable to pure melee attackers (Critical Defenses, Way of Perfection and Critical Eye), boss farmers (Sliver Armor), first to solo Tombs, etc.

I disagree in terms of non-AoE damage dealer (a Warrior merely requires adrenaline charging, and in that period of adrenaline charging he is actually doing something), melee shutdown (Blinding Flash please) and caster shutdown, and the caster shutdown role (Broadhead Arrow plz, it can actually do something else - if you use your elite as Temple Strike, chances are your whole bar is made to apply Dazed).

Yanman.be · Apr 22, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

True, Temple Strike is usually not worth it.

Silk Weaver · Apr 22, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

What I've been trying to say.

Indeed? Then why disagree with this:

Quote:

Assassins: You need to know what you can handle, who to spike / pressure, and when to move

Quote:

Except that other classes require more skill.

No class requires "no" skill. If you don't have enough skill with using the computer to open Guild Wars, then that's...that.

Essentially, but I think that the tactical aspect of the game is far more important than the "omg which buttons to click" aspect in a split, especially for a melee. Ranger gets a bit of leeway imo, becuse you have to be psychic to interrupt Bsurge/flash.

AND WHY NO LOVE FOR CONCUSSION SHOT? 5 recharge daze, gg?

viper11025 · Apr 22, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

my bleeding build is so freaking awesome.It's owns a temple build

Assassins need some more support from the players.

LightningHell · Apr 22, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Indeed? Then why disagree with this:

Because those are skills that I take for granted in a split. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be in the split (or, hell, the game) as an offensive character imo.

And all of that doesn't matter in large scale battles (i.e. 8v8 in Jade or something).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

AND WHY NO LOVE FOR CONCUSSION SHOT? 5 recharge daze, gg?

Because we're all lazy.

Quote:

my bleeding build is so freaking awesome.It's owns a temple build
Assassins need some more support from the players.

...

Campfire needs an overhaul imo.

Marcell · Apr 22, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Sorry I didn't read any of the posts before this, (Except first page) But here is my opinion.

Assassins are a great proffession considered cheap by many, and considered retarded by alot. Most of the assassin hate comes from the first start of factions. And how everyone and their grandmother was an assassin. The Assassin to other proffession in faction ratio was 2:1. If you found a monk back then, you stuck to them like they were the holy messiah. So, people started getting angry with the monkey-load of assassins. Most, being unskillful people who think they can tank. Example: Every Naruto fan had an assassin, and played them because they thought it was cool. Naming it after characters from the show. I'm not saying all naruto fans were unskillful, but most of the people who named their chars after the guys from the show, were. Eventually people who hated the Anime started to bash those assassins. And the Naruto fans went into hiding. Eventually, the bashing became a fashion and if you bashed an assassin who named their char after some naruto character, you were considered "cool". Eventually the Narutoness was forgotten, and a new wave of guildwardians joined who loved being ninjas. This started a whole new perspective of assassins who sucked. Now, they didn't do anything that was considered "Cheap" and only used daggers and rarely teleported away from a fight. Considering their sheer amount, The PvE community grew tired of them dieing, and the PvP community got frustrated with their fragileness and over-extending, and their urge to tank on a group of four in Random Arena. After some time, the veterans thought, "Hey! Assassins have some damn good potential if used correctly." So, after the new wave of proffessional assassin users ended much of the hate for assassins. But like racism, it hasn't died out yet. But its fallen to a much smaller scale. At least more people are accepting assassins now. And not just for PvP

Samurai-JM · Apr 22, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

^Couldnt have said it better myself.

Takuna · Apr 22, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I agree, I always use an assassin and I just love being able to move to one enemy, drop it, move to another, drop it, etc. While others have to pressure an enemy for longer... Oh, but they don't get hurt much! That makes all the difference... Actually, on that point, I normally last the longest in my teams and have been responsible for ressing the entire team... Odd, huh? Maybe not.

ensoriki · Apr 22, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekopowa

Also, not to mention that too many 13 years old kids play assassins just because they think they're cool and the builds they end up making are disgraceful.

That hurts T_T I was 13 just last Month.

Shuuda · Apr 22, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

That hurts T_T I was 13 just last Month.

Don't let their stupid age discrimation bother you.

Yanman.be · Apr 22, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekopowa

Also, not to mention that too many 13 years old kids play assassins just because they think they're cool and the builds they end up making are disgraceful.

Ensoriki, you'll probably think sins are cool, and feel targeted by nekopowa. Don't, because you're better than most kids out there, as they don't even try to get new ideas from forums etc.

Poki#3 · Apr 22, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I love my Assassin, and I don't care what other people think if I know they are wrong.

The only thing I'm sad about is that I'm a PvE player, and as such there are no team builds for me that don't utilise Shadow form in some way. Wheel... there is one, but it's more a Ranger then an Assassin.
I'll never see Mallyx or Kanaxai with my own eyes

Francis Demeules · Apr 22, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poki#3

I love my Assassin, and I don't care what other people think if I know they are wrong.

Its better that way because, with some reasons, that show how inexperienced or how stupid they are... If they're wrong. Generally is a team fails a mission, I'm sure they will blame an easy target by pointing someone's direction and say:"It's your fault that we failed!". Its overyone fault in all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poki#3

The only thing I'm sad about is that I'm a PvE player, and as such there are no team builds for me that don't utilise Shadow form in some way.

You could make one at your own. Using other players builds doesn't mean they're the only ones are good. I'm sure you can make one for you.

Just my 2 cents, I think the better builds are the one which we dont show in a forum or get on the net from others.

For Ensoriki, its called a stereotype. In the meaning about the "fans overexcited" by playing one and do anything by scrapping themself into the pit of failure, making more hate. You're not the one who he targets now, just from those who play badly and they dont want to gain any experiences to change to make better.

LightningHell · Apr 22, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcell

Sorry I didn't read any of the posts before this, (Except first page) But here is my opinion.

Assassins are a great proffession considered cheap by many, and considered retarded by alot. Most of the assassin hate comes from the first start of factions. And how everyone and their grandmother was an assassin. The Assassin to other proffession in faction ratio was 2:1. If you found a monk back then, you stuck to them like they were the holy messiah. So, people started getting angry with the monkey-load of assassins. Most, being unskillful people who think they can tank. Example: Every Naruto fan had an assassin, and played them because they thought it was cool. Naming it after characters from the show. I'm not saying all naruto fans were unskillful, but most of the people who named their chars after the guys from the show, were. Eventually people who hated the Anime started to bash those assassins. And the Naruto fans went into hiding. Eventually, the bashing became a fashion and if you bashed an assassin who named their char after some naruto character, you were considered "cool". Eventually the Narutoness was forgotten, and a new wave of guildwardians joined who loved being ninjas. This started a whole new perspective of assassins who sucked. Now, they didn't do anything that was considered "Cheap" and only used daggers and rarely teleported away from a fight. Considering their sheer amount, The PvE community grew tired of them dieing, and the PvP community got frustrated with their fragileness and over-extending, and their urge to tank on a group of four in Random Arena. After some time, the veterans thought, "Hey! Assassins have some damn good potential if used correctly." So, after the new wave of proffessional assassin users ended much of the hate for assassins. But like racism, it hasn't died out yet. But its fallen to a much smaller scale. At least more people are accepting assassins now. And not just for PvP

Maybe it's just me, and I'm more concerned with PvP trends...

...but at the start, people used Shock Sins, Coward sins, etc, then it kind of died out when Nightfall came out (the SP/BoA was made somewhere near the start, but didn't get popular yet). Then people started using Moebius/DB when Moebius got buffed (and so did DB, but that hardly matters), and BoA sins.

No, it's not just recently that PvP people have used sins. They're not underpowered. And PvP people still "bash" them, in that they're badly designed.

Am I A Good Sin · Apr 23, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Golden Phoenix strike
horns of the ox
falling spider
Twisting fangs
Shadow form
Archane echo
Shadow of haste
deadly paradox
Very good solo build there ( I think. I haven't tested it yet

)
Unsuspecting stike
Fox fangs
Twisting fangs
( insert all non -attack skills here )
Res sig.
That's a PvE build that can be used in a team setting.
Shadow of haste behind ur monks. Use archance echo then shadow form. Use both shadow forms and then deadly paradox to cancel shadow of haste. This will take u behind ur monks so they don't have to heal u so much and ur outta danger. Deadly paradox until shadow form is back up. Repeat. Works with any team build that has monks.
13 critical strikes at least
12 dagger mastery or more
12 shadow arts or more
Everything else in deadly arts ( for longer deadly paradox )
Try that build if u want. If not then be my geust and figure 1 out. Idc if u use this as a basis either. Most ppl like the shadow of haste and cancel stance combo tho. Just my 2 cents. Shadow form is a nice skill tho. I've used it before ^^. Great for assisting a run ( pulling mobs and such ) or if u make it right it can run a mish or something. Oh well maybe I'm off topic tho? Idc.

Poki#3 · Apr 23, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Its better that way because, with some reasons, that show how inexperienced or how stupid they are... If they're wrong.

Ha. There's really not many people that can out argument me ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

You could make one at your own. Using other players builds doesn't mean they're the only ones are good. I'm sure you can make one for you.

Just my 2 cents, I think the better builds are the one which we dont show in a forum or get on the net from others.

I'm bad at thinking up builds. Team builds are especially aout of my legue

And your 2 cents can very well me a million dollars, however my Guild leader (Elementalist. No problem in finding parties for DoA

) knows that there are a lot of teams that kick you out if even one skill is different then "The build on the Wiki". (wonder where will they go when all the builds migrate to the User Pages)

Samurai-JM · Apr 23, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poki#3

And your 2 cents can very well me a million dollars, however my Guild leader (Elementalist. No problem in finding parties for DoA

) knows that there are a lot of teams that kick you out if even one skill is different then "The build on the Wiki". (wonder where will they go when all the builds migrate to the User Pages)

I can't WAIT for May 1st now. No more wiki cookie cutter builds. Hopefully people will be forced to think on their own and not resort to copying everyone else.

Poki#3 · Apr 23, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Sadly, I fear the worst. A stagnation that will result in a loss of variety, and the current builds will be hence proclaimed the only builds... at least in some parts of Tyria...
Still, if there's anyone who want to at least try an Assassin in there party be my guest! My character name is on the left

Francis Demeules · Apr 23, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I dont really fear the worst because when we encounter some newbies, they always get a reply for other like "Check GuildWiki Noob ass" or something like that. Just hoping this will reduce that. Anyway, I'm in a way off topic here. I will stay about the main reason is a psychologic factor for Sin Hate... and "Mouth to Hear" trick: Some say something to another and this one believes him and repeat with another players.

I have already seen to do that about the mesmers, so I think about Sins if they did the same thing.